Thermondo: Richard Lucht

Dr Richard Lucht is Head of Brand and Communications at thermondo and therefore responsible for the product that is popularly known as "Habeck's heating hammer". Lucht is therefore faced with a doubly difficult mission: on the one hand, he has to explain to the Germans that the heat pump is not a hammer, but the most sustainable form of heating and that thermondo is the market leader for good reason. At the same time, he also has to convince his 1,000 colleagues who, not so long ago, were still selling oil and gas heating systems and installing them in basements with complete conviction.

In this well-tempered episode, thermondo's brand boss explains why his company had to let go of some employees, how he wants to win over house builders and increase his sales figures tenfold within a few years.

Sustainability is good and right – but how do we inspire and touch people with it? In the Sustainable Brand Stories podcast, we meet founders and brand leaders who are shaping the economy of tomorrow. We discuss greenwashing and flashes of inspiration, creative communication concepts and mobilizing brand appearances, as well as the fear of change and the art of captivating people with complex topics.

Richard: Replacing a gas heating system with another gas heating system is relatively straightforward. People are familiar with it; it's essentially like changing a tire. However, transitioning to a new technology—one that your neighbor doesn't have, that you've read about with mixed messages in the newspapers, and that various politicians sometimes mythologize—requires exceptional sales skills. We realized that not every salesperson could adapt to this new pitch and new advisory role. However, many were able to adjust thanks to the learning and development opportunities we provided. It's much more complex.

Harald: Dr. Richard Lucht is the Brand and Communications Director at Thermondo, responsible for the product that’s colloquially known as Habeck’s Heating Hammer. Lucht faces a double challenge: convincing Germans that heat pumps are the most future-proof form of heating and that Thermondo is the market leader for a good reason. At the same time, he must bring along his 1000 colleagues who not long ago were passionately selling and installing oil and gas heating systems. How do you transform such a problematic product into a sales success? How do you market the climate-friendly heating alternative when many homeowners seem indifferent to climate issues? And how does a heating installer differentiate itself from ambitious newcomers like 1komma5° or enpal? In this well-tempered episode, Thermondo’s brand chief explains why his company had to part ways with some employees, how he plans to persuade homeowners, and how he aims to increase sales tenfold in a few years.

Tatjana: Welcome to Sustainable Brand Stories, the podcast for sustainably successful brands and communication, presented by Strichpunkt Design and part of the Brand 1 Podcast Network.

Harald: Richard, you joined Thermondo as the Brand and Communications Director in spring 2022. In hindsight, your job description might as well have included the term "suicide mission," because that's essentially what it was at that time. How was it? Did the term "suicide mission" come up?

Richard: Yes, our esteemed founder and then-CEO Philip Paulster could have written that into the description. But if you read between the lines, you could have guessed it, as we were facing a massive transformation.

Harald: Transformation is one thing; the other is that in spring 2022, the product was something that was widely associated with the term Habeck's Heating Hammer and was literally being roasted by tabloids. And it must be said, with success—2023 became a record year for gas heating, not heat pumps. By the end of October alone, more than 1.1 million gas heaters were installed by Germans, indicating that the campaign had hit its mark. What does a communicator do when there’s an enormous wave of controversy sweeping through the country, discrediting the core product?

Richard: We probably need to take a step back. We launched the heat pump in July 2022. I was brought on board to prepare everything for this launch by April, and it was a massive transformation for Thermondo, just as it is for any company rolling out a new product. And it made sense to do this at that time. We were among the first to broadly focus on heat pumps, and in 2022, given the global political climate and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the mood was very favorable for heat pumps. People weren't very familiar with them, but they were hearing more and more about them and thought it was a sensible alternative—efficient, electric, not gas. So, it was a very positive environment for the launch. However, as you correctly mentioned, things changed in 2023. At the beginning of 2023, there was that famous leak of the draft law, and various publishers and media outlets jumped on it. The political commentary and debate made the so-called heating debate very challenging from a media perspective. The tailwind we had in 2022 turned into a headwind, and communicators had to navigate this changing wind. It's both a blessing and a curse—on one hand, it generated a lot of emotions, which is good for social media and grabbing attention. On the other hand, you need to adjust your sails properly to steer in the right direction. I think we managed that quite well, but we still feel the effects. And we are not alone; the entire market felt 2023 was essentially a lost year for heat pumps, as you correctly assessed.

Harald: I’d guess—and I might be wrong—that some of the arguments or counter-arguments from back then still linger in people's minds. It would be nice if by the end of 2023 everything would be forgotten, but I suspect that's not the case. So, as a communicator, how did you adjust your sails when faced with such significant headwinds?

Richard: Fundamentally, I’ve always been attracted to companies and markets where new things are happening and where pioneers are introducing new products and topics. That’s what Thermondo was doing, which is why I found it so exciting to join them at that time. When you’re the first, you need to explain why this solution makes sense, how it works, and if it makes sense for the consumer. These were the topics we needed to address. Thermondo, having been established in 2012/2013, already had an impressive track record in the heating sector and is known as Germany's largest heating installer. It was clear that Thermondo needed to deliver when it came to explaining this new technology. While the technology itself isn’t new—it’s been around for about 100 years—it was new for German single and two-family homeowners at that time. So, what did we do? We focused heavily on our own website, which is a major entry point for people seeking information about heating. We created lots of SEO content and other materials to help people learn about heat pumps. We also invested in all our owned channels, especially LinkedIn, to explain the technology and its benefits, and we conducted economic calculations with people. We used Instagram and YouTube as well. YouTube is a great channel for people to explore topics at their own pace, and we even saw some heat pump influencers emerge during 2022/2023. We also aimed for earned media, trying to get our voice heard in top-tier media outlets like Handelsblatt, FAZ, Spiegel, etc. to explain what we’re doing and how. Our purpose is “Together, we live climate-neutral,” which applies not only to our Thermondo team but also to friends, partners, and other influencers. We worked with all of them to spread our messages and address the headwind we faced in 2023 with substantial education.

Harald: Understood, you’ve essentially done your homework and done what you could. I also checked out your YouTube channels. Of course, there are also other YouTube channels with quite a few followers that first claim that climate change doesn’t exist and that the heat pump is some kind of government tool to spy on us, etc.—all that nonsense. Last question about the lost year 2023, as you called it: Is it really a phase where you have to pull your head in a bit and wait for the storm to pass because there’s no chance anyway? Do what you can, but in reality, you can’t achieve much, or could you actually measure any tangible impact? Did you manage to counteract it in your sales figures?

Richard: That’s a great question. Over the past two years, we’ve worked extensively on the brand, and as anyone who sets up a brand framework knows, different brand types can be identified to define a brand's personality. We determined that Thermondo represents the “hero” brand type. As a hero, it’s essential to stand tall and face the headwind, which we did. In 2023, we exited the oil sector and in February 2024, we will exit the gas sector. Despite the continuing market for gas, we decided to stop because we believe it’s the right thing to do. As the largest heat pump installer, we have the expertise and after over 5000 installations, we know it works. We want to be at the forefront and open the door for others who follow. We’re not alone, and as mentioned, “Together, we live climate-neutral” is not just a slogan. There is room for others to join us, and we need to work towards installing at least 500,000 heat pumps annually in Germany. Unfortunately, we are far from that goal right now due to the ongoing debate, but we need to get there to achieve our climate targets. Everyone needs to contribute to this effort.

Tatjana: Quick Dirty Time for a round of quick questions. When did you first realize the importance of sustainability?

Richard: For those who don’t know him, Larry Fink, Chairman of BlackRock, made it clear in his letter to shareholders how crucial sustainability is. At that moment, it became apparent to everyone in the consulting field I was in that it would have a tremendous impact on the entire capital market.

Tatjana: Why do you believe sustainability and sustainable brand management will be crucial for competition in the coming years?

Richard: Ultimately, I believe the decision will come down to the thumb and forefinger—sitting it out will be much more costly than investing in sustainability.

Tatjana: The argument you’d use to persuade even the most skeptical person to act more sustainably?

Richard: I have to think back to my ethics teacher in high school who always referred to Kant’s categorical imperative: Act only according to that maxim by which you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.

Tatjana: Your definition of sustainability in one sentence?

Richard: Always play the long game, or in German: Denke heute immer schon an morgen.

Tatjana: Do you have a better alternative to the overused term “sustainability”?

Richard: Future-proof.

Tatjana: Honestly, what is your personally most unsustainable product or habit? Where do you cheat?

Richard: Guilty pleasure: I’m a motorcyclist and use approximately 1.3 tons of CO2 per year with 10,000 kilometers. It’s relatively high, but I argue that my carbon and handprint through the installation of heat pumps, which save twice as much CO2 annually compared to fossil heating, balances it out.

Tatjana: If you became Federal Chancellor tomorrow, what would be the sustainability law you’d introduce immediately?

Richard: The most effective tool worldwide would be the introduction of comprehensive CO2 pricing, like what’s being discussed with ETS 2.

Harald: I read a figure that impressed me: you claim to provide an offer in 2 days, compared to the traditional 28 to 56 days for a quote from a classic tradesman. Is this due to process stabilization or just a marketing promise?

Richard: No, one has to make a distinction here. It’s not about the offer itself but about the installation of the heat pump. The offer, you’ll probably get that quickly from an SHK installer. That’s not the issue. But I can briefly walk you through the customer journey.

Essentially, it will be like this: The four-person family we discussed earlier realizes that their gas heating isn’t lasting as long as it used to, as they say in Swabian, and then they start looking or get bombarded with messages on Instagram or LinkedIn, or they might find something on Google or read about Thermondo in the newspaper. Somehow, they end up on our website and use our heating calculator. They can enter some initial data about their house—like the age of the house, its location, how well it’s insulated, the energy standard, and heating consumption—because they’re interested in the topic. Then they also enter their contact details, and they will be contacted relatively quickly, usually within minutes rather than hours. The so-called Leadwarming Team will call to check whether the person is genuinely interested or just wasting their time.

If the person is indeed interested in a consultation appointment for a heat pump, then an appointment is scheduled, and one of our salespeople, who are spread across Germany, will visit the customer. This results in a 2 to 3-hour conversation. Why does it take so long? It didn’t used to be the case when we sold gas. For various reasons: First, a heat pump is a different topic, more emotional as we discussed earlier. Second, the heat pump is located outside the house, so it has aesthetic components; it’s not hidden in the basement but visible outside for the neighbors. And there’s also the whole grant component to consider, so one needs to understand how much funding one can actually get as a household.

Harald: Do you handle that for the customers as well?

Richard: Yes, we take care of everything we can. We try to make the grant application process as simple as possible for every customer. After that, we visit the heating cellar, inspect it, and at the end of the 2-hour meeting, if all questions are clarified, we provide a fixed price offer. This is immediately given to the customer, and then it is checked by our quality management team at our Berlin headquarters. They verify if all the data is correct, if we have all the necessary information, and if additional data is needed. Once everything is checked, the customer receives the fixed price offer again for signature, and then the installation can be scheduled. The installation involves several things: the appointment with the electrician, the foundation builder, and the SHK installers. They are in the house for two to three days, during which there is usually no hot water, and then the heat pump is installed. This can all happen within 30 days. Why does it work so well? It’s because we have completely optimized, standardized, and digitalized the processes, making them scalable. This involves a lot of work division, optimization of many small details, and that’s why it’s faster for us.

Harald: Software is one thing; the backbone is the people who advise and install, real people distributed across Germany. Now, you used to install oil and gas heaters, but your purpose today is "together, we make living climate-neutral." How do you communicate such a turnaround to advisors and installers who previously came up from the heating cellar covered in oil, now saying that oil heating is not the right choice anymore? How do you get your team on board with such a transformation?

Richard: I think, first of all, we had Philipp, our founder, who was also a CEO at the time, and his personality, communication skills, and empathy were crucial in getting people on board. People listen to him when he speaks, and they take seriously what he says, which was central. Secondly, in our brand assets—such as brochures, videos, and photos—we worked extensively with the craftsmen and addressed the transformation taking place. We conducted interviews about how the arrival of the heat pump affects them. Additionally, in the summer of 2022 and 2023, we held our so-called Brand Festival. This is the moment when Thermondo employees from all over Germany come together. You see how diverse the people are—different ages, accents, languages, educational backgrounds—all coming together, and we try to make it clear what we stand for, who we are, and how we work together. The festival in 2022 was the perfect moment to introduce the heat pump and explain why we’re doing this. Bringing people together behind the papers and then reinforcing this in 2023 by discussing where we’re headed was crucial.

Harald: To summarize, as this is a topic that many brands, including us as an agency, often grapple with: How do you get employees excited about the brand mission? From what I understand, you didn’t just gloss over the issues but involved the installers and also separated from those who couldn’t adapt. You brought everyone together in person and filled the mission with life. Were these the things that worked well, and what didn’t work in this transformation?

Richard: Yes, exactly. Communication is extremely important in this case, but there’s a second crucial component, and that is learning. We’ve had Steffi with us for some time, who is responsible for Learning and Development. It became clear to us that we needed to invest in this area—ensuring that people, including the installers, learn how to properly install the heat pump. Many craftsmen had never done this before, so it’s our responsibility as a company to equip them with the knowledge they need to feel confident with the technology. Only then will they be motivated to install the device. On the sales side, the situation is similar; there’s a lot of communication involved, but at some point, emails and videos aren’t enough. You have to go into learning. We invested a lot of time to re-train our sales team and create training materials to give people the confidence they need. This is especially important in sales because, as I mentioned earlier, a consultation lasts 2 to 3 hours. At the end of the day, you’re visiting someone’s home, which is not just a house but a home—something they may have saved up for years, inherited from parents, or have for generations. It’s also something they want to pass on. If you want to convince someone to make a €30,000 investment, you need to take time to understand them and be able to provide good advice. There has been a massive transformation on the sales side because replacing a gas heater with another gas heater is relatively simple. It’s like changing tires. But moving to a new technology that the neighbor doesn’t have, which you read mixed things about in the newspaper, and which various politicians discuss in talk shows, requires a high level of sales expertise. We realized that we couldn’t bring every salesperson along. Not everyone could adapt to the new pitch and the new consulting approach, but many could be brought along through the learning platforms and development opportunities we provided. It’s much more complex because suddenly you have to deal with concepts like merit order, CO2 pricing, or how a heat pump works. Why are some products available, and others not? It’s very complex, and we invested heavily in this.

Harald: How would you estimate the percentage of your salespeople who are still from the old fossil world versus those who are new? How many have you managed to bring along?

Richard: Oh, that’s a good question. I would say...

Harald: Approximately.

Richard: I hope my salespeople don’t get upset after this podcast. But I would say about 30%.

Harald: So, 30% are the same people who used to sell gas or oil heaters and now sell heat pumps, and 70% are new hires due to the new, complex topic.

Richard: Yes.

Harald: Richard, you’ve mentioned that you have a great brand purpose, which is “Together, we make living climate-neutral.”

Richard: Yes, “Together, we make living climate-neutral.”

Harald: It’s a great brand purpose that’s easy to understand. However, the world outside has changed significantly in recent years. Climate change was a major concern a few years ago, but now inflation, the Ukraine war, and other issues have taken precedence. Given this context, how do you motivate customers to take action and sign up?

Richard: People still indicate that they want to reduce CO2 emissions, but it’s a multiple-choice question. The click is quick, but whether they act accordingly often depends on their finances. That’s why we always emphasize in our communication that the heat pump must be a business case. This message is aimed at politics and also explains why a heat pump is already a viable business case for single-family and two-family homeowners. I can briefly explain this with a standard case: A heat pump today, before subsidies, costs around €30,000. Since the beginning of this year, it’s possible to receive up to 70% in subsidies. That would be €21,000 from the state, leaving a remaining cost of €9,000 for the heat pump. Replacing a gas heater with all the necessary components costs around €11,000, so in this example, the heat pump would be cheaper. This 70% funding applies to about 30% of people, but realistically, the majority will likely get 50-55% funding, so the heat pump would cost...

Harald: This depends on income, right?

Richard: Exactly, and we must not forget that in Germany, many homeowners are retirees who no longer have a job and thus no income. Consequently, many more people fall under the 70% rule than one might assume—around a third of people might qualify for the 70% rate, based on our data. About 50% of people actually fall under the 50-55% rule. This means a heat pump costs roughly €15,000 to factor in, which makes it slightly more expensive than switching to a gas heating system, but it includes everything. That includes the foundation work, the electrician, the disposal of the old heating system, and the subsidy service—everything is part of a complete package. It’s important to understand how this price is composed: 30% is the heat pump itself, another 30% covers all additional materials related to the heat pump—this includes not just the outdoor unit but also the piping, wiring, and indoor units. And then there’s another 30% for service—all the services and work mentioned are included in those €15,000. For a gas heating system, we’re at €12,000. Now, one might say that the €3,000 difference makes the gas heating system cheaper, which is true, but you also have to consider the operating costs, since you’ll have a heating bill every year for 20 years. The question is, which is more expensive? With a high probability, the gas heating system will be more expensive. Why? Because the heat pump is about four times more efficient than a gas heating system, meaning you can divide the primary energy used for heating by four with a heat pump. Of course, you need to know how expensive electricity and gas are. That needs to be calculated. Right now, electricity prices are relatively high, while gas prices are relatively low, though this was different during the crisis period. And we must not forget that a CO2 price is added to the gas price, and that will gradually increase in the coming years. Given this context, it is very realistic that with a heat pump, you save about €500 per year today, and these savings will increase in the coming years. This means the heat pump is already worth it today, but it becomes even more worthwhile each year.

Harald: Unfortunately, I don’t have a single-family or two-family house yet. If I did, Richard, I'd be on your couch right now signing the contract. What you’ve just explained also somewhat clarifies why there’s little talk about sustainability in your YouTube videos. There’s some mention of climate, but the focus is mostly on whether, how, and when a heat pump is worth it—the decision is made between thumb and forefinger, right?

Richard: Correct, correct. And that’s why we focus on one main thing for our customers. We aim to present the so-called full cost calculation as optimally as possible for our customers and to explain why, in the end, the electrification of the single-family home is a viable business case.

Harald: Where and how do you recruit your customers? At which touchpoints do people come across you, and how do they get in touch with Thermondo’s consultant to discuss the benefits?

Richard: We use virtually all possible channels. This starts with display advertising on various social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram, Meta, YouTube, and various news media platforms—essentially, you can’t miss us. We even ran a TV commercial last year for three months, which had a significant impact. Additionally, we have a strong presence in newspapers and, of course, our SEO and SEM efforts are crucial. We have a very intensive and strong website where people can find a lot of heating-related knowledge. Many people find us through our website because we cover all sorts of topics related to heating and, increasingly, everything related to the energy transition in single-family homes.

Harald: Few topics caused as much excitement last year as heat pumps. It’s refreshing how relaxed my conversation partner is about the topic. Thermondo didn’t run major campaigns or try to counter the hysteria surrounding heat pumps—something that probably would have been futile. Instead, the brand has been diligently working on improving its service, SEO optimization, and factual information. The company believes that the time for its key product has come and that its purpose, “Together, we make living climate-neutral,” is attracting more employees and customers. It’s interesting that this purpose subtly resonates in their end communication, but Thermondo hardly emphasizes it. Instead, the market leader in heat pumps relies on cost-benefit calculations and the persuasive power of hard numbers—probably more convincing than appeals to the morality and conscience of homeowners. But for a brand that makes its money from heat, it’s surprisingly cool and calculated.

Harald: Thermondo was once a startup twelve years ago in a very traditional and stagnant market. Today, however, you have very young and extremely fast-growing competitors like 1komma5° or enpal, who were also guests on this podcast. They come from the photovoltaic sector and now offer a complete package of photovoltaics, battery storage, heat pumps, and wall boxes—essentially the same as you, but with a different story and, in my impression, a much larger marketing budget. How do you differentiate yourselves from them, and how do you want to be perceived alongside these young and dynamic competitors?

Richard: Basically, we’re very pleased that we now have several so-called Cleantechs in Germany that are pursuing the same goals and trying to provide alternatives for single-family homeowners. That’s great, and they’re doing excellent work, and we collaborate a lot with them.

Harald: You collaborate with them? Okay.

Richard: Yes, exactly. Essentially, whenever we try to ensure that people understand why a heat pump makes sense or why electrification in the home is beneficial, we have the same interests, and we work together. What sets us apart? I believe it’s important to look more closely at the business models of individual companies. They can explain that better than I can, and it’s something people should look into themselves. But when I talk about Thermondo, I can say that Thermondo comes from the basement. We are basement kids; we come from the heating cellar. We’ve been dealing with heating for 11.5 years. We understand heating, and we know what it means when a family sits cold under the Christmas tree on December 23rd. We understand that this is not pleasant, and every service technician of ours, every heating installer knows what that means. And that’s what we fight to prevent.

Harald: You have heritage as a heating company?

Richard: Exactly. We have extensive knowledge of how heating works and also of what happens when heating doesn’t work. For example, the whole topic of after-sales and service is incredibly important. If a PV system on the roof doesn’t work, that’s one issue, but if the heating fails in winter, that’s a completely different issue. In that context, quality is crucial. We always say we measure ourselves by the number of satisfied customers, and I believe, personally, that in a world where multiple providers offer similar products, quality makes the big difference, and that’s what we’re currently investing in. We’re investing in our processes and in customer satisfaction to make that difference.

Harald: As a customer, I only perceive the quality of your products once they are installed. What are your goals to improve your customer ratings and to gain higher trust from potential customers compared to, say, unknown competitors?

Richard: Quality has many different components. First, it’s about trust—if I, as a customer, feel that you don’t know what you’re doing, it becomes challenging. I mean, €30,000 before subsidies is a significant investment, likely the second-largest investment for many people, and I want to know that the person on the other side knows what they’re doing. So, it’s important to convey that we know what we’re doing, we’ve done it a thousand times, and our installers know what they’re doing. That’s crucial. Then it’s about streamlining the processes related to quality so that no one falls through the cracks during the customer journey. Does this still happen? Yes, it does, and it’s not pleasant at all. We work every day to make it better.

Harald: What does it mean to "fall through the cracks"? Are calls not being responded to or something?

Richard: Exactly. It’s a very complicated value chain or a very complex customer journey. As I said, we differentiate ourselves by having established task specialization. But with such a long, complex customer journey, everyone needs to hand off responsibilities properly. Everyone involved in customer touchpoints needs to hand off the baton smoothly, and previous employees' fingerprints must be visible. It must always be clear where the customer currently stands. We are among the best in the market, if not the best when it comes to heat pumps. But we can still improve, and we are investing a lot in our software and products to ensure that the customer’s status is always clear in the backend, so the customer doesn’t fall through the cracks because something was forgotten or not communicated. Instead, the customer should always know where they stand. This is a crucial point. And it doesn’t end with the installation; that’s just the beginning. A heat pump lasts about 20 years, and during those 20 years, the customer should be able to rely on us and not end up sitting in the cold. That’s why after-sales and service are extremely important to us. All of this reflects in our customer ratings, which is a very high priority for us. I also think it's important to understand, as I mentioned before, that we start with the most complex asset—the heating system in the basement. We’re experts in that field and are relatively advanced in the learning curve. There are other things you can install, like a PV system, a wall box, or a home energy management system, which are simpler. But heat pumps are the hardest to scale, and that’s the tough nut we believe we’ve cracked. It’s very difficult to achieve a great Trustpilot result or Google rating with heat pumps, but we’re doing very well. We believe that PV and other topics are simpler, so we pay close attention to our Trustpilot ratings.

Harald: To briefly explain what you mean by "from hard to easy": You have, from your perspective, the hardest or most challenging product—the heating system in the basement—you said you’re “basement kids” and now you’re working your way up to the roof, while competitors who started with the roof are now slowly making their way to the basement and discovering it’s not as easy as they thought.

Richard: Exactly. It’s good that more and more providers are offering heat pumps. But it’s a learning curve, and it was quite steep for us as well.

Harald: Richard, as a final point, let’s look ahead a bit. You’ve installed about 5,000 heat pumps so far. I read that by 2045, Germany needs to make around 16,000,000 homes climate-neutral—correct me if I’m wrong. That sounds like a lot, but it’s also quite far off. However, since a heating system lasts about 20 years, that’s essentially just around the corner. Beyond your professional optimism, how do you plan to achieve this?

Richard: Honestly, I am very optimistic. The question is, what do we need for this? First, we need the devices themselves. During the pandemic, there were supply chain issues, but those are resolved. When we started with heat pumps, there weren’t many German manufacturers who could provide enough heat pumps, but that has changed. Now, all manufacturers have heavily invested in heat pumps, so the first hurdle is cleared—the devices are available. The second issue is funding. The heat pump must be a viable business case, as we mentioned earlier, which relates to both the acquisition and operating costs. Now that the heating law is in place and funding is clarified and looks good, I see no issues with acquisition costs. Even if you don’t have subsidies of €9,000 or €15,000, you can finance it, rent a heat pump, or apply for a KfW loan. So, that’s possible too. As we discussed earlier, the heat pump is cheaper than gas heating. Anyone relying on gas or oil heating today is likely falling into a cost trap, and that’s something that needs to be made clear. Consumer centers and experts agree on this. Therefore, the business case is sound, and there’s nothing against heat pumps in this regard. The third check is having the installers and skilled workers who can install a heat pump. We hear from various SHK (sanitary, heating, and air-conditioning) associations that installers are increasingly familiarizing themselves with the topic, learning a lot, and almost all are capable of installing a heat pump. There are players like Thermondo and others who specialize in heat pumps and can install them without issues. That’s the third check. I’m considering if there needs to be a fourth check. I believe the last one is the overall sentiment—that people have the information I just mentioned, understand it, can calculate it for themselves, and see that it works for their single-family home without needing underfloor heating or extensive roof insulation. They can simply install the heat pump, and it makes sense for them. Once this message gets through, I don’t see why we shouldn’t reach 500,000/600,000 heat pumps per year. We have everything: the material, the workers, it makes financial sense—so why not do it? We’re at that point, and last year we installed 350,000 heat pumps in Germany. I believe the path to 500,000 heat pumps isn’t too far.

Harald: Final question: What share of this do you aim for? Let’s say, in 3 and 5 years, when we meet again, how many heat pumps will Thermondo have installed in 5 years?

Richard: I believe—and this is something to be calculated—we are definitely capable of having a double-digit market share. So, if we eventually reach 500,000 heat pumps, that would be around 50,000.

Harald: Feasible, Richard. Thank you. I hope you keep us warm and, of course, climate-neutral. I’m curious to see how things progress at Thermondo.

Richard: Thank you, Harald.

Harald: Sustainable Brand Stories is part of the Brand 1 Podcast Network, which is an independent business podcast network. We make business experiences and stories audible. Also featured are podcasts like Subscribed Now, where Lennart Schneider presents concepts for winning and satisfying subscribers. For digital business ideas, check out the Digital Optimists podcast with Alexander Morzek. In the Planetary Podcast, Brand 1 host Frank Dahlmann and Fridtjof Detzner from Planet Aventures discuss business within planetary boundaries. You can find all podcasts at podcast.brandeins.de. Brand 1 spelled out. Check them out and listen in, because we promise it will never be boring.

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